Reclaiming Control.

Eve Picker: [00:00:06] Hi there. Thanks for joining me on Rethink Real Estate. For Good. I’m Eve Picker and I’m on a mission to make real estate work for everyone. I love real estate. Real estate makes places good or bad, rich, or poor, beautiful, or not. In this show, I’m interviewing the disruptors, those creative thinkers and doers that are shrugging off the status quo in order to build better for everyone.

Eve: [00:00:39] Adriana Abizadeh is the executive director of the Kensington Corridor Trust in Philadelphia. You might wonder what that is and why it exists. Kensington was once known as the workshop of the world, with booming manufacturing and a well employed neighborhood. Then Kensington Avenue was a bustling local business corridor. Now there is a lack of economic investment and everything that comes with it. 58% of Kensington residents live below the federal poverty line, and the average household annual income is just over $20,000. Formed in 2020, the trust is tasked with reclaiming control of the corridor. They do this through the purchase of property, which is placed in trust and governed by the neighborhood. Neighborhood trusts are fairly new, but if Adriana has her way, they will become mainstream. Listen in to learn more.

Eve: [00:01:51] Hi, Adrianna. Thanks for joining me today.

Adriana Abizadeh: [00:01:55] Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Eve: [00:01:57] So, unwavering commitment to reclaiming control of the business corridor. That’s the bold statement on your website. What corridor are we talking about? And? And how do you reclaim or regain control?

Adriana: [00:02:13] Absolutely. Yeah. So, we are talking about the Kensington Avenue corridor in the Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia. And for us, reclaiming control is really a couple of different elements, but all focused on community control. So, reducing vacancy, bringing new businesses into the space with an emphasis on a focus on businesses that are coming from within the neighborhood and then providing affordable residential spaces also on that very same corridor.

Eve: [00:02:40] So when did the need for control become clear and why?

Adriana: [00:02:47] Yeah. So, KCT was formed in 2019. The Kensington Corridor Trust, we were formed in 2019. I would say the need probably became clearer probably sometime in the five years before that and maybe even longer before that. But it was watching, kind of, the wave of gentrification in some of the neighboring neighborhoods following the elevated train, which we call the L, and acknowledging that at some point Kensington would be next. We’d already begun to see at that time some active redevelopment from private developers. Still not a ton of city investment, some nonprofit investment but even with all of that there was still very large vacancy rates, a lot of properties with absentee landlords or not in active use at all. And so it was this mixed space where there was deep investment alongside disinvestment. And so, in 2019 we were formed.

Eve: [00:03:42] So was the next space, right? The next edge. But what did the Kensington corridor, what was it like previously? How did it shift over the last several decades?

Adriana: [00:03:42] Like decades ago?

Eve: [00:03:53] Yeah.

Adriana: [00:03:54] Yes. So, like many neighborhoods, we were one of the workshops of the world. So, it was a manufacturing and factory space, textiles, among other things. And, you know, as we saw that boom kind of shudder and leave spaces like Philadelphia and other major urban centers, we saw increased vacancy. We also saw white flight, and then we saw affordability emerge. And so, the neighborhood is now and has been for several decades, predominantly black and brown, fairly low average household median income around 25,000 a year, which is half of the city of Philadelphia’s AMI, which is at around $54, $55,000 a year. You know, just alongside the disinvestment in the work and the employees leaving, there was also then disinvestment in the neighborhood in itself. And so that’s where we began to see a rise in the vacancy, which then led to an increase in crime, you know, and it kind of trickled from there.

Eve: [00:04:46] All the things that follow. So, what is the Kensington corridor? Is it primarily retail? Is there housing, office, like, what sort of uses are along there?

Adriana: [00:04:55] Absolutely. So, it’s predominantly commercial mixed use. So, most of the buildings are commercial on the first floor with residential on the second and third story. Some of the blocks are two stories. Some of the blocks are three story. But it’s predominantly commercial mixed use.

Eve: [00:05:07] How long is the area that you’re working on?

Adriana: [00:05:11] So we are a 1.4-mile-long corridor, but we’re actively acquiring on three blocks. So, we are using a strategy of density for acquisition.

Eve: [00:05:20] So you launched actually something called the Kensington Corridor Trust and when did it launch?

Adriana: [00:05:27] It was formed in 2019, and then I was hired as inaugural ED in 2020.

Eve: [00:05:32] Okay, so it’s pretty young?

Adriana: [00:05:34] It is. Yes. Still infants.

Eve: [00:05:36] The primary goal you’re trying to accomplish and the target market…

Adriana: [00:05:41] Is community wealth building. Yeah. So, we are trying to have localized ownership and control of the real estate to preserve affordability and localized control. So, making sure that the folks who have lived there historically have access and control over those spaces.

Eve: [00:05:52] So the target market is the people in the neighborhood, like, how do you stop other people from buying in, like…

Adriana: [00:05:58] You can’t.

Eve: [00:05:59] You can’t, right? So let me step back a bit. What is a neighborhood trust? What is the Kensington Corridor Trust and exactly how does it work legally and financially?

Adriana: [00:06:10] Absolutely. So, a neighborhood trust legally is the combination of a 501(c)(3) and a Perpetual Purpose Trust. So, it’s that hybrid construct between those two entities that creates the neighborhood trust model. And then in terms of the way that we operate, we have two governing bodies, both of which are fully comprised of residents and small business owners in the neighborhood. So, of the 19134-zip code, specifically. We touch six census tracts along that 1.4-mile-long corridor. So, in those there’s about 32,000 residents. Again, average household median income about 25,000 a year. On the 1.4-mile-long corridor there are over 600 assets. In our current target acquisition space, which are those three blocks, there’s a little over 100 assets. KCT is in the process of closing on its 20th property now. So, we hold about one fifth of what’s in that three target blocks. When we get to about 40 to 60% of ownership on those blocks, we’ll then begin to move outward one block at a time in each direction towards the outer boundaries of the 1.4 miles. Again, density strategy.

Eve: [00:07:12] So it’s a neighborhood trust. The neighborhood trust owns the property. The governing organizations are also people from the neighborhood in perpetuity. So it can be no one else who controls the property. That’s essentially…

Adriana: [00:07:25] Correct.

Eve: [00:07:25] Do I have that right?

Adriana: [00:07:26] Yes. Yeah. So, a perpetual purpose trust, which is the part that most folks are not as familiar with. Most folks understand the 501(c)(3) non-profit model. In a perpetual purpose trust, you can protect assets perpetually for a purpose. And so, the assets that we are protecting are real estate for collective ownership and localized control and affordability. And then for that purpose that I just mentioned. And so, once the assets go in, they cannot come out.

Eve: [00:07:50] And how do you decide who is on the governing board?

Adriana: [00:07:54] We hold open democratic elections annually. So actually, we’re in open cycle right now. So, anyone from the neighborhood is eligible to apply or be nominated, either, again, as a resident or the owner of a small business. And then the existing governing body selects the folks that applied, bring them in, and then we do rotating cycles so that we’re not losing institutional knowledge as terms are ending.

Eve: [00:08:15] Wow, okay! You said the trust owns about 20 properties now. Total square feet?

Adriana: [00:08:22] Each property is about 2200ft² on average. Typically, 16 foot frontages and 65 foot runs back, in terms of depth. Most of our properties are three-story. We hold a couple of two-story properties, and then we also hold some vacant land which we steward in a community garden. So, we have an 11 lot pollinator garden that we steward directly on the corridor.

Eve: [00:08:42] So these are all pretty tiny properties actually. They remind me of what’s called sliver buildings in Pittsburgh, which are slightly larger.

Adriana: [00:08:50] That’s exactly right. Yes.

Eve: [00:08:50] 20 by 100. Yeah.

Adriana: [00:08:53] Yeah, that’s actually larger. These are small. These are typically 16 by 65.

[00:08:57] Slightly. And what condition are most of these properties when you buy them. And do you renovate them yourselves? I mean, do you have your own development arm. How does that work?

Adriana: [00:09:10] Yes. So, most of the properties are requiring gut rehab. Some of the properties we’re acquiring are coming from private developers, so we’re exiting them so that they can move on and be extractive somewhere else. And so…

Eve: [00:09:23] Not all developers are extractive. Come on.

Adriana: [00:09:26] Not all of them. Just the ones that we’re dealing with, just the ones we’re dealing with. But when we do exit something from a private developer, typically it doesn’t require rehab, and we’re able to pull it back into affordability, right? So, for example, we just acquired a property where the commercial tenant was paying $1300 a month, and we’re going to be able to bring their rent down to $950. So, it is a significant difference in terms of the relationship that I think they’re having with a neighborhood stewarded trust. And then the other assets that we’re acquiring that require a gut rehab, we have a construction project manager that oversees the subcontractors, and we directly sub out the different aspects of the work and get the project back online and activate it as quickly as possible. And then the commercial tenants that are coming into those spaces are approved by the neighborhood. So, we do a ton of community engagement to ensure that the neighborhood wants that business on their corridor before moving someone in and signing a lease.

Eve: [00:10:16] Are the people who come in as commercial tenants sometimes from the neighborhood?

Adriana: [00:10:21] Yes.

Eve: [00:10:21] Like, do you help them with their businesses and growing sufficiently to be able to manage a space like that?

Adriana: [00:10:27] Yes. So, a couple of things. Most of the folks that have come to us so far are from the neighborhood. Most of those folks are folks of color and more than half of them identify as immigrant as well and we have several women owned businesses. And so, those folks, most of them, as I said, have come from the neighborhood. Most of it has been fairly organic. So, folks are referring them to us, we’re having a conversation. The other thing to keep in mind, as we talked about the square footage of the space, these are on average very small spaces. So about 850 square foot frontages on the commercial space. So, they’re small operators.

Eve: [00:11:00] That would be really big in Paris.

Adriana: [00:11:03] Ah, okay. See, all relative.

Eve: [00:11:04] It’s all relative.

Adriana: [00:11:06] For Philly it’s a small footprint.

Eve: [00:11:07] Yeah it is small. That can be good for someone who’s starting out. That’s just way less to take on.

Adriana: [00:11:13] That’s exactly right. So, a lot of the operators that we’ve brought in thus far are single owner, you know, member LLCs. They are figuring out something. Maybe they’ve tried it in a different space. Maybe they’ve been a maker inside their home, and they’re now at the space in the capacity where they’re ready to transition into a bricks and mortar. So, it’s been really exciting for our organization and our partner organizations to support them in, you know, gaining access to physical space, but also ensuring that their business is ready and that they, as entrepreneurs, have the wraparound services that they need to be successful and thrive in that space.

Eve: [00:11:46] And so the properties that you’re purchasing, do you hope to eventually have control of most of the properties in those three blocks?

Adriana: [00:11:54] Yeah. So ideally, we want to hold between 40 and 60%. So KCT, right, when we talked about earlier about like how do you stop other people from coming in. We can’t. That’s not what KCT is doing. I think at the Kensington Corridor Trust, our focus has been on protecting as much as we can by preserving the affordability and the local control, acknowledging that there’s always going to be outside development, there’s going to be city development, and also there’s going to be individual owners, which we want to continue to own and steward their spaces on the corridor, right? We are not trying to exit individual owners who are, you know, operating their business out of their space or, you know, making their own individual generational wealth out of the space. We’re interested in taking on the spaces that no one is activating, or that are highly extractive.

Eve: [00:12:35] Okay. So, then on to financing. How do you finance these projects?

Adriana: [00:12:40] Yes. So, we look at it from kind of like two worlds, if you would. We do have a 501(c)(3). So, we are able to take in subsidy in grants. At this time, we’re not using government funding, so it is all private foundation dollars. And then on the debt side, we’re using program-related investments or PRIs, also known as mission, aligned investments from foundations, from their endowment. And that allows us the space to be able to do the rehab on the, you know, do the acquisition, do the rehab on the properties, reactivate them before we’re moving into repayment. So, we have longer runways on the front end of those debt terms that do either interest only or interest only deferred followed by the P&I. And then there’s a balloon. Most of our terms are between 10 and 15 years. All of our debt is at 2% or below. So, we’re between 0 and 2% interest on all of our debt.

Eve: [00:13:31] Pretty good.

Adriana: [00:13:31] It’s been really, really great. Challenging to scale, but very, very good in terms of the projects and making sure that we can sustain affordability.

Eve: [00:13:39] Okay. So, tell us about a successful project that you’re particularly proud of.

Adriana: [00:13:46] Hmm. Well, one that we have in the pipeline that we’re particularly proud of is not at full fruition yet. We are bringing a small grocery store to the corridor. So, when I first started working at the Kensington Corridor Trust in 2020, you know, I was trying to learn about the neighborhood, meet with residents, meet with small business owners, and the single thing that I kept hearing over and over in every room, different rooms, you know, different people, was, we need a grocery store, we need a grocery store, we need a grocery store. And the second thing that folks were saying is we need more spaces for our youth to engage in positive and healthy spaces after school and on weekends. And so, for the last few years, we’ve been working at trying to figure both of those out. The youth element was a little bit of a lower hanging fruit because there are already partners in the space who, you know, in the neighborhood, rather, who are already doing youth programming. And so, it was a matter of partnering with them, making that activation at our garden, which we now do successfully and have for two seasons, two garden seasons. The grocery store was a harder lift. One, because of the square footage of the buildings, right? We just talked about the average square footage of a building at 2200ft² across, three stories.

Eve: [00:14:49] Right?

Adriana: [00:14:50] Two, parking. Right? So, it’s a very busy and bustling corridor in terms of commuters and for the businesses that are operating. And so, parking is very challenging. And then a loading dock, there really aren’t any buildings that have loading docks on the corridor to bring the grocery pallets in and out. So, last year we stumbled on a gem that came up for sale on the market. There was an artist who had been using it as his studio, his artist design studio, for the last 20 years, and he was moving towards retirement and put his property up for sale. That property is about 3400ft² across two stories. So, it’s a much larger run.

Eve: [00:15:24] Huge!

Adriana: [00:15:24] Yeah, it’s a much larger run than the average building on the corridor for us. And so, we were very excited to bring that in. Just right after we brought it in and we found a local operator. So, this gentleman grew up in the neighborhood, has been operating his business in the neighborhood, doing food imports and exports and is going to move into the grocery space and then is also going to operate a commercial kitchen on the second story, a shared commercial kitchen. And so, we’re really, really excited for that project.

Eve: [00:15:54] That’s a great project!

Adriana: [00:15:55] Yes, it’s going to be super great. The neighborhood is excited. It’s accessible by transit, so it’s literally right outside of the train station. So, for folks who are riding the El it’s been very well accepted and regarded and welcomed by the residents. And we’re really, really excited to bring it online, hopefully by winter of this year.

Eve: [00:16:14] Sounds terrific. So how do you engage community members and stakeholders, so they know what you’re doing and become part of this trust?

Adriana: [00:16:23] There’s a couple of ways. Traditional organizing and engagement, right? Going out, canvassing, being present at events, making sure that we’re visible. All of our staff at this point, right when we’re out on the corridor with our swag, with our KCT-shirts, everyone’s like, oh, hi! Like, you know, we’re very known just from walking so much up and down the corridor. That’s one way. The other way is through our partners. So, engaging in partnership and collaboration as much as we can, right? We’re a very small entity in comparison to some of the larger nonprofits that exist in the space and so really leveraging and pulling shared resources together for events and for activities and programming has been really, really helpful. And then the last way I’ll say, has really been around policy advocacy. Right? So, in addition to thinking about perpetual ownership, we’re also thinking about public policy and systems change. And what does it mean? Or what does it look like to have residents engaged and small business owners engaged in that work? And so, we do have a full-time organizer on staff who’s leading our engagement work, but also doing our policy advocacy. And so, we’ve engaged with a lot of folks in that way, because people want to see change in the neighborhood. And they, you know, we all have a vision for what we want. And so, bringing those folks at City Hall to do testimony and meeting with legislators and council, and having them hear directly from the folks on the ground. So, I think through those kinds of three different avenues, we’ve been pretty successful in engaging with folks.

Eve: [00:17:39] So that was going to be my next question. Is the city of Philadelphia supportive of the trust and its goals and how?

Adriana: [00:17:45] Yeah, I think the city has been supportive. I was invited to be on the Mayor’s Transition Committee for Economic Development this past winter. I think we have a strong presence in the city of Philadelphia as a new and innovative model. What I think we haven’t quite cracked the code on is determining funding and land, so.

Eve: [00:18:03] I was going to ask about that.

Adriana: [00:18:04] City of Philadelphia has a land bank and so we are working with our local councilwoman who was recently elected. So, a new rep to determine how we can move forward with doing that, with unlocking some of these properties that sit within the target boundaries of where we’re currently doing acquisition, and then trying to learn more and be in the right spaces and places with the right people at the right time to determine how we can unlock some funding from the city of Philadelphia. And I think we’re getting closer every day but, you know, when we look at other cities across the country, you know, some cities are making multi-million-dollar investments into innovative trust structures. That has not yet been the case in Philadelphia. But I am very, very hopeful that we can unlock some land and some dollars to make this work possible.

Eve: [00:18:46] So is the Kensington Corridor Trust unique in Philly or anywhere?

Adriana: [00:18:53] It is, yeah. So, it’s the only one in Philly and then the other folks who are using the same legal infrastructure and also building a neighborhood trust structure are based in Kansas City, Missouri. And we both formed around the same time. They’re very focused on the residential aspect, we’re more focused on the commercial aspect but we use the same legal infrastructure and back end and we’re both neighborhood trust models. But, outside of us, to our knowledge, there are no others.

Eve: [00:19:16] Should there be more of you?

Adriana: [00:19:18] I think so. We at KCT have been very cautious. Just to say, let us make sure that this is sustainable first, before we begin to replicate. We don’t think that neighborhoods are stomping grounds for experiments. So, we want to make sure that this is viable and sustainable and that it has impact, and that it can be governed locally and that you can, you know, secure sufficient funding and land to make it work long term. I think we’re still maybe another year or 2 or 3 out from that determination. But we have conversations with communities across the United States and some international conversations as well, regularly. Just like, what would it look like to replicate this? What does it look like to scale it in Philadelphia? I think folks are very interested in the model and particularly in the governance and the financing of the work. And so, we, on our website, we have a document center where we share all of our learnings, and we’re dropping reports on a fairly regular basis. We define common terms, because it’s not just there for folks who are looking at our model externally, it’s also there for residents who want to understand and learn more about the work as well. And so we try to make sure that it’s very transparent and that it’s easy to access and to grasp.

Eve: [00:20:23] Do you think, is there another neighborhood in Philly that you think is ripe for a trust like this? I’m sure you’ve thought about it.

Adriana: [00:20:32] Yeah. And there’s several that have approached us. I think there are some that could be ready. I think one of the things, I think there are two things. One is, it should come from the residents. Right? So, it should really come from the folks who are there who have lived there historically, those legacy residents and those legacy business owners wanting to preserve and protect for themselves. So that’s part one. So, you have to have like a ready neighborhood. Those folks are ready to go. The second part is the financing of the model. Right? Like going out to national foundations and securing these program-related investments is not light work. And it’s not for the light-hearted. And so, you know, having folks who are ready and prepared to do that work and to make those pitches and to have those very financial conversations alongside, you know, the societal impact conversations. So, yeah, there’s a couple that come to mind, but I wouldn’t name one specifically now. I would say that there are some who are already exploring and thinking about it. And, you know, we want to be of support wherever we can. To all of those folks.

Eve: [00:21:30] You mentioned that you have a small team. How big is your team?

Adriana: [00:21:34] There are four of us as of January 2nd.

Eve: [00:21:37] Small but mighty, right?

Adriana: [00:21:39] Small but mighty. So, it’s myself, the construction project manager, the lead community organizer, and then we just brought on a part-time operations assistant in January, just to give us a little bit of extra capacity boost for everybody to get their projects across the line.

Eve: [00:21:52] And how big were you when you started? Just you?

Adriana: [00:21:57] One. Just me. For the first two years, it was just me.

Eve: [00:22:00] That’s pretty decent growth, right?

Adriana: [00:22:02] Yes, I think so. Slowly but surely.

Eve: [00:22:06] So what excites you most about the work you are doing?

Adriana: [00:22:11] Mhm. Really the community-led aspect, right. So, I’m an organizer by background. I have a public policy background, which is what attracted me to this work and to exploring the development of the neighborhood trust model. But to me, there’s nothing more exciting than folks leading the way forward, the folks who are most closely impacted, the folks who know the best solutions to the work, and to the issues and the challenges. That’s the best part. Like, our governance is amazing and bar none. I love working with the residents and small business owners to design and to determine what it is that they want done, and for our team to just go and implement it and serve as the stewards.

Eve: [00:22:44] I hope people are listening to this because a lot of people are very scared of that.

Adriana: [00:22:48] Oh no, I mean, it’s my favorite part. It really is.

Eve: [00:22:52] But I mean, working with people who don’t necessarily have the skills or understanding around real estate development, that can be really tough.

Adriana: [00:23:01] Yeah, it can be, 100%. And we’re so grateful to have funders that have supported us in doing governance education. So, we’ve brought in outside facilitators to have discussions with our boards around the different issues where they felt they could have some skill strengthening. Right.? So, thinking about how to make a real estate deal, right? When do you know something is the right acquisition? How do you, you know, put together your portfolio. But even other things like marketing and communications and thinking about social media and press hits, you know. Development and fundraising, making a pitch, right, like all of those things, if you haven’t served on a board before or if this isn’t an area where you’ve had space.

Eve: [00:23:36] It’s all new. It’s all new.

Adriana: [00:23:38] All new, right? And so, making sure that folks feel like they are equipped to support our staff team, but also each other and the broader neighborhood in executing the work. But, yeah, I think so, oftentimes, particularly in the nonprofit sector, we feel like, you know, you’ve got to have the attorney, the HR consultant, you’ve got to have a finance expert to be your treasurer. Right? Like all of these things are necessary. And it’s just so untrue. You can bring in those external supports to make sure that the folks who are closest to the works are the decision makers, but that they have expertise at their side when they’re making those decisions.

Eve: [00:24:10] So you don’t have any requirements for skills for the governance board?

Adriana: [00:24:14] We do not. Open applications every year. The only requirement is that you live in or have a small business in the neighborhood. Outside of that, there are no formal requirements for skill sets or education or anything else.

Eve: [00:24:28] So looking ahead ten years, what potential do you think trusts like this hold?

Adriana: [00:24:33] Yeah. One, I think preserving pockets of affordability. Right? The private development is coming, city development is coming. Individualized donor development is coming. And so, I think, you know, making sure that the folks who have lived in a certain space in place historically can afford to continue doing so. And so, reducing some displacement is my hope. I think scaling is definitely viable in ten years. Right? So, thinking not just only in Philly, but also in other places and spaces, and acknowledging too that the model is not a one size fits all, right? You can use this legal infrastructure in back end, and you can think about neighborhood-led governance and work on residential. Right? Strictly residential, as they’re doing, you know, trust neighborhoods out in Kansas City, Missouri. Or, you know, potentially other uses. Maybe you use it just for green spaces, right? Like we’ve been able to integrate. Right? So, we’re working on residential and commercial and green space. But you know, you could have focuses based on the needs of any specific neighborhood or place at any given time. And then my hope is that ten years from now, this really won’t be seen as innovative or othered, right? It’ll be very, this is normal, right? Just when you think about community land trust.

Eve: [00:25:36] Mainstream.

Adriana: [00:25:38] Mainstream, right? When community land trusts first emerged, everyone was like, what is this? This is not a thing. This won’t be viable. And look now, right, there are hundreds of commercial land trusts, but maybe thousands. I don’t know the statistics, but there are many across the United States, several of which are in Philadelphia and have been very successful at preserving green space and doing affordable housing construction. And so, you know, I think getting it less from like this shiny new thing into like a this is a place where we can invest, and we know it’s a sure investment and there’s space to have real impact in neighborhoods through this work.

Eve: [00:26:08] And it will unlock financing, because financing is definitely mainstream, right?

Adriana: [00:26:14] 100%. The way that we define risk is very mainstream.

Eve: [00:26:17] Very mainstream. So one final question for you. What keeps you up at night?

Adriana: [00:26:22] Oh! Moving too slow.

Eve: [00:26:24] Interesting.

Adriana: [00:26:25] Like are we moving too slow? That question of just like, what is the right pace and scale in order to make sure that there is sufficient impact, and you are preserving enough affordability, meanwhile, making sure that there is sufficient external investment to take, you know, care of some of these larger things that folks want to have taken care of, like crime and education and public transportation. Right? Like all of these societal benefits that we have at large, it’s like a little bit of a coin toss, almost, right? Like if you have too much investment in one place, you have really active displacement of low-income folks. And if you have so much preservation of affordability, it makes it difficult to have investment, perhaps, in some of these other areas. So, yeah, sometimes I’m just like worried about the pace and the scale at which we’re doing the work. We’re acquiring about five properties a year right now, which when I say that to some folks, they’re like, that’s amazing. I’m like, yeah, but remember, they’re like 2200ft² apiece. There’s over 600 of them on this 1.4-mile-long corridor. So if I buy five a year, we’re like, really, the impact, you know, this feels fairly small. It’s very impactful for the folks who take on those spaces as commercial tenants or as residential tenants. But in the larger scheme of things, like I’d love to see us acquiring more each year, bringing more properties online each year, attracting more businesses each year, and making sure that there’s more residential affordability annually as well. So yeah, just like pace and time, I always feel like I’m fighting some clock, some like non-affordable clock.

Eve: [00:27:50] Well, it sounds to me like you’re going gangbusters and I expect in a year or two you’re going to be buying 20 properties a year. I don’t expect less from you okay.

Adriana: [00:28:01] OK then, the pressure is on!

Eve: [00:28:03] So thank you very much for joining me. And I can’t wait to see what else you do.

Adriana: [00:28:08] Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Eve: [00:28:28] I hope you enjoyed today’s guest and our deep dive. You can find out more about this episode or others you might have missed on the show notes page at RethinkRealEstateforGood.co. There’s lots to listen to there. Please support this podcast and all the great work my guests do by sharing it with others, posting about it on social media, or leaving a rating and a review. To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on LinkedIn. Even better, if you’re ready to dabble in some impact investing, head on over to smallchange.co where I spend most of my time. A special thanks to David Allardice for his excellent editing of this podcast and original music. And a big thanks to you for spending your time with me today. We’ll talk again soon. But for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.